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	<title>Comments on: Design vs. Data</title>
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	<link>http://systemsboy.com/2009/03/design-vs-data.html</link>
	<description>Big, Honkin' Systems Stuff</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:19:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Finally and Finally! &#8211; The Adventures of Systems Boy!</title>
		<link>http://systemsboy.com/2009/03/design-vs-data.html/comment-page-1#comment-1602</link>
		<dc:creator>Finally and Finally! &#8211; The Adventures of Systems Boy!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 01:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://systemsboy.com/?p=1261#comment-1602</guid>
		<description>[...] wrote about my frustration with Google&#8217;s lack of design vision some time ago. It&#8217;s great to finally see them [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] wrote about my frustration with Google&#8217;s lack of design vision some time ago. It&#8217;s great to finally see them [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: systemsboy</title>
		<link>http://systemsboy.com/2009/03/design-vs-data.html/comment-page-1#comment-1104</link>
		<dc:creator>systemsboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 14:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://systemsboy.com/?p=1261#comment-1104</guid>
		<description>Today just happens to be Gmail&#039;s 5th birthday. I think that&#039;d make this the longest beta ever. Either way, that&#039;s five years Google&#039;s had to work on design.

But the fact that the software is beta is hardly a reason not to criticize it. In fact, the beta period is typically the time when developers ask for feedback. And something that sucks but is beta, is still something that sucks.

Anyway, that&#039;s my two cents on the whole beta thing.

-systemsboy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today just happens to be Gmail&#8217;s 5th birthday. I think that&#8217;d make this the longest beta ever. Either way, that&#8217;s five years Google&#8217;s had to work on design.</p>
<p>But the fact that the software is beta is hardly a reason not to criticize it. In fact, the beta period is typically the time when developers ask for feedback. And something that sucks but is beta, is still something that sucks.</p>
<p>Anyway, that&#8217;s my two cents on the whole beta thing.</p>
<p>-systemsboy</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: YANOUSHek</title>
		<link>http://systemsboy.com/2009/03/design-vs-data.html/comment-page-1#comment-1103</link>
		<dc:creator>YANOUSHek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://systemsboy.com/?p=1261#comment-1103</guid>
		<description>I also think that gmail lacks good design and, I guess, that&#039;s why the logo still says BETA :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also think that gmail lacks good design and, I guess, that&#8217;s why the logo still says BETA <img src='http://systemsboy.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: systemsboy</title>
		<link>http://systemsboy.com/2009/03/design-vs-data.html/comment-page-1#comment-1099</link>
		<dc:creator>systemsboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://systemsboy.com/?p=1261#comment-1099</guid>
		<description>Right. Your web page says it all.

Cheers!

-systemsboy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right. Your web page says it all.</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
<p>-systemsboy</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Peter da SIlva</title>
		<link>http://systemsboy.com/2009/03/design-vs-data.html/comment-page-1#comment-1098</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter da SIlva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://systemsboy.com/?p=1261#comment-1098</guid>
		<description>Funny. To me Google Mail looks like a human made it, and Apple Mail looks like it was designed by the same robots that make those cheap clock radios from Taiwan you see at Sears.

I like minimalism. Check my web page. Lynx enhanced. I edit my &quot;blog&quot; in raw HTML. But I draw the line at &quot;Platinum&quot;. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny. To me Google Mail looks like a human made it, and Apple Mail looks like it was designed by the same robots that make those cheap clock radios from Taiwan you see at Sears.</p>
<p>I like minimalism. Check my web page. Lynx enhanced. I edit my &#8220;blog&#8221; in raw HTML. But I draw the line at &#8220;Platinum&#8221;. <img src='http://systemsboy.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: systemsboy</title>
		<link>http://systemsboy.com/2009/03/design-vs-data.html/comment-page-1#comment-1097</link>
		<dc:creator>systemsboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://systemsboy.com/?p=1261#comment-1097</guid>
		<description>Wow, it&#039;s like Bizarro World. We&#039;re opposites! At least when it comes to Gmail.

Actually, what I like about Gmail is the tagging (or &quot;Labels&quot; — yes, Google has renamed more than they&#039;ve reinvented) aspect and the fact that everything stays on Google&#039;s servers. I don&#039;t get why Apple Mail doesn&#039;t have tags, but I&#039;m unwilling to install 3rd party hacks to get them.

Yes, it&#039;s true, the way things look is subjective. But Google&#039;s pages are designed around unstyled HTML. Their style is a willful lack of style. It looks cheap and unconsidered (to me). I get the feeling Google designs by committee, by survey. I prefer something that looks a bit more polished, a bit more like there&#039;s a human making it.

But more importantly, I don&#039;t think Google holds design in high regard, and that if they did I think they could innovate even more than they already have. It&#039;s not so much that their apps look bad — though I clearly think they do — but that Google could make them work better by looking more at design, among other things.

Personally, I&#039;ve always had an affinity for the Thinkpads. When I was buying my Windows box I almost got one just for the look of it even though it cost significantly more. Most people I know agree that the Thinkpad is a nicely designed machine. Instead I got a Dell, which is just another example of cheap, flimsy, ugly design. Oh, I&#039;m also a big, big fan of the Thinkpad nipple. And not just &#039;cause I was weaned too early. The nipple rocks!

I would argue that the Tandy was plastic and the MacBook Pro is whatever space-age metal Apple&#039;s using these days, and that draws some sort of line somewhere. But, thank you very much, I&#039;ll never look at my old-skool PowerBook quite the same way. I&#039;m typing on her now, and looking at a picture of a TRS, and , yes, there&#039;s definitely a similarity.

Next up: The brilliant design of the 1977 Tandy TRS-80.

-systemsboy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, it&#8217;s like Bizarro World. We&#8217;re opposites! At least when it comes to Gmail.</p>
<p>Actually, what I like about Gmail is the tagging (or &#8220;Labels&#8221; — yes, Google has renamed more than they&#8217;ve reinvented) aspect and the fact that everything stays on Google&#8217;s servers. I don&#8217;t get why Apple Mail doesn&#8217;t have tags, but I&#8217;m unwilling to install 3rd party hacks to get them.</p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s true, the way things look is subjective. But Google&#8217;s pages are designed around unstyled HTML. Their style is a willful lack of style. It looks cheap and unconsidered (to me). I get the feeling Google designs by committee, by survey. I prefer something that looks a bit more polished, a bit more like there&#8217;s a human making it.</p>
<p>But more importantly, I don&#8217;t think Google holds design in high regard, and that if they did I think they could innovate even more than they already have. It&#8217;s not so much that their apps look bad — though I clearly think they do — but that Google could make them work better by looking more at design, among other things.</p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;ve always had an affinity for the Thinkpads. When I was buying my Windows box I almost got one just for the look of it even though it cost significantly more. Most people I know agree that the Thinkpad is a nicely designed machine. Instead I got a Dell, which is just another example of cheap, flimsy, ugly design. Oh, I&#8217;m also a big, big fan of the Thinkpad nipple. And not just &#8217;cause I was weaned too early. The nipple rocks!</p>
<p>I would argue that the Tandy was plastic and the MacBook Pro is whatever space-age metal Apple&#8217;s using these days, and that draws some sort of line somewhere. But, thank you very much, I&#8217;ll never look at my old-skool PowerBook quite the same way. I&#8217;m typing on her now, and looking at a picture of a TRS, and , yes, there&#8217;s definitely a similarity.</p>
<p>Next up: The brilliant design of the 1977 Tandy TRS-80.</p>
<p>-systemsboy</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter da SIlva</title>
		<link>http://systemsboy.com/2009/03/design-vs-data.html/comment-page-1#comment-1096</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter da SIlva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://systemsboy.com/?p=1261#comment-1096</guid>
		<description>The way things look is important, but the way things look is also *subjective*. Terribly so. I have a Macbook Pro and I think it looks like something Tandy would have come up with in 1979. Really, that whole slightly rounded silver design is TRS-80 style. Meanwhile, Apple fans laugh at how ugly the Thinkpad I really want is... but the Thinkpad&#039;s industrial lines look really good to me, in a Harrison Ford hewn-from-honest-oak kind of way.

Google Mail looks good to me. I use APple Mail to read my mail instead of using GMail&#039;s user interface not because the design looks better and feels better, but because I don&#039;t like the fundamental way GMail works. I don&#039;t like the everything-is-a-damn-conversation no-that&#039;s-not-the-same-as-threading-honest design. But that interface is the most design-driven part of GMail.

And some people really really like it. Because design is subjective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way things look is important, but the way things look is also *subjective*. Terribly so. I have a Macbook Pro and I think it looks like something Tandy would have come up with in 1979. Really, that whole slightly rounded silver design is TRS-80 style. Meanwhile, Apple fans laugh at how ugly the Thinkpad I really want is&#8230; but the Thinkpad&#8217;s industrial lines look really good to me, in a Harrison Ford hewn-from-honest-oak kind of way.</p>
<p>Google Mail looks good to me. I use APple Mail to read my mail instead of using GMail&#8217;s user interface not because the design looks better and feels better, but because I don&#8217;t like the fundamental way GMail works. I don&#8217;t like the everything-is-a-damn-conversation no-that&#8217;s-not-the-same-as-threading-honest design. But that interface is the most design-driven part of GMail.</p>
<p>And some people really really like it. Because design is subjective.</p>
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